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Twin Town High (vol. 8) |
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R.E.M. Peter Buck Talks About The Passion
Thursday 11 September @ 15:09:02 |
 R.E.M. means different things to different people. For those that came of age during the ’80s they were the quintessential college rock group, the “little band that could,” with a strong cult following and road warrior work ethic. As a talented songwriter for an up-and-coming band once described it to me, “Everybody who was cool during the ’80s knew about R.E.M.” For the college set of the early ’90s, R.E.M. were reclusive global super-stars, defying typical industry rules by increasing in popularity while refusing to tour. And for the youth of today—in what is tantamount to a pop music War Crime given that Creed is still capable of selling in the millions—R.E.M. are a mostly forgotten blip on the pop culture radar.
The dozen years since R.EM.’s “Losing My Religion” topped the pop charts seems like a lifetime ago. Could anyone envision a mandolin-driven folk-pop song about emotional crisis all over the airwaves in 2003? The only constant in R.E.M. over the years has been change, the core of Peter Buck (guitar), Michael Stipe (vocals), Mike Mills (bassist/multi-instrumentalist) and Bill Berry (drums) slyly morphing from cryptic jangle-pop artists into elegant folk practitioners in their first decade of existence and shifting even more drastically during the last 10 years (from the prescient garage rock posture of 1994’s Monster, the band’s last real hit album, to the muted electronic-based melancholia of ’98’s Up, recorded immediately after Berry’s retirement from the group and an overlooked masterpiece). R.E.M.’s most recent full-length, 2001’s Reveal, was barely noticed in the U.S. (400,000 in sales as compared with quadruple-platinum status for previous outings like 1992’s Automatic for the People). Which in all honesty probably has a lot to do with why Peter Buck is willing to talk to me on the phone and R.E.M. is getting the cover treatment in a local alternative weekly rather than Rolling Stone.
The rest of the world hasn’t turned R.E.M. back into a cult act, however, as pictures of Michael Stipe clad in a “REVEAL CHANGED MY LIFE” banner hand-made by fans in Poland during the European leg of R.E.M.’s greatest hits tour readily attest (Reveal sold 2.5 million overseas and the band still routinely cracks European pop charts and recently headlined England’s prestigious Reading Festival). R.E.M. are an increasingly rare pop music jewel, a collection of eccentric art school type dorks from a southern college town (Athens, Ga.) who through sheer charisma and songwriting fortitude morphed themselves into world famous pop stars. Does anyone think a band led by an overtly androgynous bald-headed singer with fabulously over the top stage moves would even be able to get signed by a major label today?
It’s always been the juxtaposition of odd personas that gave R.E.M. its otherworldly pull over audiences: the collision of Stipe’s bad-sinus-abetted beautiful bleat with Mill’s spot-on choir boy harmonies; the blend of Buck’s off-the-cuff, less-is-more guitar hooks with Mill’s ornate arrangement sensibilities. These ingredients were a potent combination whether the band was immersed in earthy Southern Gothic territory or dallying in icy automaton pop. One of the few true bands left in existence, R.E.M. would be a less than special entity if any of its three principals were to walk away (the departure of Berry was nearly enough to make the band call it a day during the tension-filled recording sessions for Up).
More importantly, R.E.M. can count themselves among the precious few Elder Statesmen in rock who still give a damn about their audience and the world around them. Particularly in the post-9/11 cultural zeitgeist that somehow transformed U2 (the last time I checked, a leftist band from Ireland) into America’s ultimate flag wavers, it was heartening to see that R.E.M. still recognized pop music as a vital form of cultural dissent; rapidly recording and releasing the anti-Iraqi invasion song “The Final Straw” this spring in a move that I’m sure raised more than a few eyebrows around Warner Brothers corporate headquarters.
About to embark on a short three-week stint of America in support of October’s forthcoming greatest hits compilation In Time: The Best of R.E.M. 1988-2003 (which features the by now de rigeur inclusion of two new tracks), the band is also taking time out from putting the finishing touches on its forthcoming 13th full-length studio record. Pop music trends are always near impossible to predict (I mean seriously, rap metal, who saw that coming?), but fans of thought-provoking music can only cross their fingers and hope that 2004 sees a mass rediscovery of R.E.M.—the original mainstream art-rock band who paved the way for the Wilcos and Radioheads of the world to connect with the public at large.
Peter Buck took time out to chat with P.J. Morel and myself to discuss, amongst other topics, the state of R.E.M. as it moves in on 25 years together.
PULSE: It seems like R.E.M. prides itself on being a politically outspoken band, with “The Final Straw” being the most recent example. How important is that aspect of your art to you?
BUCK: We always felt that the band should try to mirror our lives, I don’t really feel like this is showbiz so much. I voted before I was ever in R.E.M., and I certainly had opinions my entire life. When we say political things, or do things behind the scenes like donating money to causes—that’s just kind of a reflection of who we are. I’m not saying that every person who’s in a band needs to do that, but we’ve always thought of that as a large part of us.
PULSE: I know it’s only recently come to light in the press, but R.E.M. was very close to calling it quits during the recording of Up. What factors were leading you guys to that moment, and how have you resolved the problems and decided to continue on?
BUCK: You know I think the whole near-breakup thing was precipitated by Bill [Berry] leaving. Everyone in the band has a different take on it, my feeling was that maybe everyone wasn’t focusing and concentrating in the way that I would have wanted. I think that Mike and Michael would probably tell you that I wasn’t communicating very well. What’s that Liz Phair song, “I’m a Complicated Communicator”? And you know, we’re also guys in a rock band and we’ve known each other at this point for something like 24 years and you tend to sometimes skip saying the things you need to say and I think we kind of figured out, with some help, that you have to say what you mean. Really sit down and say, “This is what’s bothering me.” It’s really not fun, but it actually makes you better friends in the long run I think.
PULSE: Since Bill’s leaving, R.E.M’s employed multiple drummers and also leaned a lot heavier on drum machines to fill out the rhythm section. Any thoughts on permanently replacing Bill?
BUCK: When we did Up, Bill quit the first day we were starting to record and even though Barrett Martin was there and he’s a great drummer, we didn’t want to rush into working full-on with another drummer because it was just too sad and too painful. So we ended up doing a lot of stuff with drum machines, and they came in really handy. Up was kind of a process of re-inventing ourselves, trying to figure out what we were going to be. With Reveal we used live drums a lot more, but still using some loops, you know it’s part of the technology that’s there, might as well use it.
PULSE: Do you plan on continuing to work in a more electronic oriented direction?
BUCK: We’ve written a whole lot of stuff for the next record and it’s probably less electronic-y than the last couple records. We’re trying to keep it really stripped down, we’ve still got plenty of work to do on it, so who knows how it will turn out. What we have right now is kind of bare bones though, which I’m really enjoying.
PULSE: The shows on the European leg of the tour were some of the first for the group together in something like four years. Was there a case of any nerves or stage fright getting back out there?
BUCK: I play really regularly with different bands around Seattle, whether it’s something like the Minus 5 or Tuatara, so it’s not so much a matter of, am I nervous being on-stage, because we’ve done it over the years. We have a new drummer with us this time and there’s always the fear that you’re going to walk out on stage and there’s just not going to be chemistry. But it felt great from the very first moment we started rehearsing. There’s always that fear though, that one day we’re going to get up there and go, “I don’t feel like doing this anymore.” Whether that happens at age 50 or 75, I don’t know.
PULSE: Does R.E.M. ever long to get back to being one of the biggest bands in the world? Is a #1 record like Out of Time something that the band wants to experience again? Or do you see the band as being more like Elvis Costello or Neil Young, artists who topped the charts once and then never sought to duplicate the feat.
BUCK: My feeling is that right now we kind of have two careers. We have our European career where we still have #1’s and multi-platinum records and can play to huge crowds every night—and then we have the American career which isn’t quite so sterling (chuckles). I’m not particularly worried about the commercial aspect of things. What I really want to do is just make great records, and I feel strongly that if we make a great record, than people who like us will buy the record. But also you’ve got to factor in the way radio is in America right now —there just aren’t a whole lot of formats out there that we fit into.
PULSE: The point you bring up about the radio leads nicely into my next question. It seems like the route that bands like R.E.M. and a lot of other groups came up in during the ’80s—the whole college rock band gets strong indie-following signs with major label on own terms and finds larger success template—doesn’t really exist for bands anymore. The whole farm system structure has kind of eroded, indie-music and major label music just seem content to be completely separate spheres now. If R.E.M. were just starting out in 2003, instead of 1980, could you have gone down the same road to success?
BUCK: I don’t think that it would have happened for us in the way that it’s happened. I don’t know what kind of music I would be making right now if I were 22, but given that it took us several records to have a big hit, that’s just a situation that doesn’t happen anymore in the industry. The majors just don’t allow you that much time anymore. I don’t really see that happening again, a band getting to put out four or five albums before they have a hit single, that’s just not going to happen.
PULSE: Could you ever envision R.E.M. walking away from Warner Brothers after your current contract is up and being the world’s biggest indie-band (as Pearl Jam recently did parting ways with Epic)?
BUCK: I’ve had a good experience with Warner Brothers over the years. We’ve made the records exactly how we wanted to, and done what we wanted to do. I feel real good about where we are with them. On the other hand, there is something really nice about putting something out on a small label and not having to go through things like doing interviews or shooting videos. I get the chance with something like Minus 5 to put things out on a really tiny label and play to a few hundred people a night and that’s equally as rewarding for me. I’m really lucky that I get to do both sides of the coin.
PULSE: How has your approach to songwriting changed from the early days?
BUCK: I’m of a generation who the first music we ever listened to was the Beatles. I was a little kid when they were around, but I remember buying their records and being 7, 8 years old. I bought “Let it Be” when it came out when I was 12. If I had been 12 years old in 1990 what would have been the first record I ever bought? I mean, who knows, Guns’n’ Roses, De La Soul? You can’t tell. As a grown-up I’ve absorbed a lot of the music that’s come along afterwards, but pretty much all of us who grew up in that era still kind of think that melody, chord changes and harmony are very interesting whereas there’s kind of less interest in that across the board now. That’s the stuff I like.
PULSE: Is there current music that excites you?
BUCK: I see bands all the time still. I probably buy 10 records a week, I’m surprised how much of it is really good. I buy hip-hop records, indie-rock records, major label records, whatever. For me I just feel like you don’t really hear any of it on the radio but there’s great stuff happening out there.
PULSE: How has the aging process changed music making for you? Do you relate to writing songs the same way you did back at the beginning, or is it a fairly different process?
BUCK: Most people that continue to write songs into their 40s will say, “I’ve learned so much more and I’m a better songwriter” … and yeah, I tend to think I am. It is different though, I remember when I was 21 or 22 and we were writing songs for R.E.M. I never really thought about it—we just knocked it out. We did something in half an hour and that was fine. Nowadays, you tend to work a little harder and you tend to doubt yourself a little bit more. You work so hard on these things and then you can’t help but start asking yourself, “Is this actually worth listening to?” “Does anyone really care?”
PULSE: Do you ever try and knock something out quickly now like in the old days, just to see what it feels like?
BUCK: I work really fast, but Mike and Michael like to take their time a little bit more. We have this “best of” thing coming out though, and one of the new songs on there, “Animal,” we played twice, maybe three times at the most, not just the day we recorded it, but ever. Michael heard the track and wrote the words the next day and the song turned out great and lively and exciting, so we still do try to capture that throwing- things-off kind of feeling sometimes.
PULSE: How important are having different living situations and side-projects to the continued life of the band? Does it make returning to the fold more exciting? How much does time apart keep it going?
BUCK: We played more between 1980 and the end of 1989 than Led Zepplin did during their entire career. We didn’t have a day off during that whole time—I never had a vacation until the ’90s. Not that I’m complaining. You know when you get older it changes, I would like to work more, I would make more records if we were able to, but I think it is integral to walk away from it a little bit and put it in perspective. It’s a great thing that we have, we shouldn’t let it just slide away.
PULSE: Do you ever worry about it becoming too high pressure a situation by working together less frequently?
BUCK: We put a lot of pressure on each other, and that’s really all I have to worry about.
PULSE: You guys must be in an interesting head-space to be doing a greatest hits tour and road testing new material at the same time. Simultaneously looking back and moving forward seems intriguing. Has it felt like a different sort of tour to you guys?
BUCK: We just did the European leg, where our popularity if anything is more than it was five years ago. We’re still hugely popular there and so we learned about 80 songs for that tour, and we changed the set every night, so we’re doing tons of songs that we haven’t played in years, which is kind of strange. It’s cool to look back on older songs you’d forgotten about and think, “Hey we were kind of good song-writers, those are some decent songs.” And then we are actually working on new stuff, so I kind of enjoy that balance. I like that there isn’t anything really tied to the tour and we’re just going out there to play. That should always be the main goal anyway.
R.E.M. plays on Tues., Sep. 16 at the Xcel Energy Center. With opening act Ed Harcourt. 7:30 p.m. $35-$75. The Xcel Energy Center is loacted at the corner of Kellogg Boulevard and West Seventh Street in St. Paul.
Fans can help choose R.E.M.’s set-list for their show by heading over to http://www.remhq.com and casting their votes on-line.
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